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Talk:Protective Bond
Should we add a note about the very popular "105/85/55er" builds (if you know what I mean)? --Tetris L 21:22, 26 Aug 2005 (EST) :Today's update changed Protective Bond so that this build doesn't work anymore. Ehe energy cost for reducing damage will stay at 3, so it can't be used effectively with this build anymore - you won't have any energy left to do damage. --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 21:31, 26 Aug 2005 (EST) Should we add a note that, even though we can't prove it, at rank 17 the energy drain is most likely 3? The reason we can't prove it is because we can never tell whether the +1 bonus triggers. However, I'm probably not the only one who recasted Protective Bond at 16 with +1 offhand for more than 20 times trying to get the drain down to 2. Statistically speaking, the probablity of the +1 never trigger in all those attempts is extremely unlikely. No hard proof, but something like 99.9999% certain. -PanSola 03:43, 5 December 2005 (UTC) :No one has ever reported the linear interpolation using 0 and 15 to not work at 17 (by extending it to extrapolate). --Fyren 15:41, 5 December 2005 (UTC) ::Eh, maybe because it's not exactly linear so most people don't use linear inter/extra-polation on it? Generally speaking. -PanSola 15:50, 5 December 2005 (UTC) :::Blah, looks like interpolation using 0 and 12 does work, while 15 doesn't. I always kinda expected there is a diminishing return in place so never paid attention to this property. So why does the website use green number ranges from 0~15 as opposed to 0~12? -PanSola 16:07, 5 December 2005 (UTC) ::::What? Interpolation with 0 and 15 works, 0 and 12 doesn't. And we do use 0...12 as our ranges. (This is because we started before ANet ever used 0...15 in patch notes and 0...12 is used in game.) --Fyren 16:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC) :::::Um, maybe the progression table for the sever skills I checked were wrong then? Empathy's duration can be interpolated between 0~12 but not 0~15. I checked several other random skills using the progression table in their articles, and 0~12 seem to consistently work... o_O""" -PanSola 16:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC) :::::Blah nevermind, I must've typed some number wrong into the spreadsheet earlier... -PanSola 16:59, 5 December 2005 (UTC) ---- This is my new favourite spell ^_^ 195.137.4.228 10:03, 13 January 2006 (UTC) I suppose that with the new Dwayna Statues in Factions it is possible to get the energy drain to -2... not in UW though Wouldn't it still be possible to use this for a 55 monk if combined with mending(at at least 13 healing prayers) and watchful spirit? I dont see any reason that it would not work.--Coloneh 23:07, 21 September 2006 (CDT) :No, the energy drain is too much. No matter what level of Protection Prayers, it will take 3 energy for every hit (except at 18, which is very difficult to attain, and impossible in the UW). Even with Balth's spirit and Essence Bond, you will be losing one energy every hit and unless they are hitting you only once every 3 seconds in total, you will be losing energy until you die. --Vortexsam 23:30, 21 September 2006 (CDT) ::I know you would constantly lose energy but you will only take 3 damgae from attacks or 2 damage if you can also equip a -20 weapon. You will just have zero energy and 6 health regeneration. I think it would work like Holy Wrath you wouldnt get negative energy you would just have zero energy while in battle. Also you would not need the Totem Axe as all enchantments would be maintained.--Coloneh 15:58, 22 September 2006 (CDT) :::As the description says, this ends if you can't pay the energy. This doesn't work like holy wrath. --Fyren 16:00, 22 September 2006 (CDT) ::::Well there goes my build idea. Im going to try it anyways though.--Coloneh 20:02, 22 September 2006 (CDT) :::::Won't Bonetti's Defense be able to keep up with the energy loss as long as you can keep it up as long as needed?--Relyk 05:55, 2 February 2007 (CST) ---- I've tried using this as a bonder with life bond and essence bond on the ally, and balthz spirit on myself with moderate success. Not sure, but if life bond triggers first, then you would need the inital damage to be >48 (for a lvl 20 with no mods) for prot bond to cause the energy loss. In this case, the ratio of lesser damage to greater damage would determine net energy gain or loss. : Indeed, check out Mo/Me Tank Bonder and it's talk page :o) --JP 13:20, 24 October 2006 (CDT) Energy Loss Mr Anonymous, same deal, I believe a screenshot is needed to substantiate this claim that Prot Bond's energy loss can be divided. Removing the note until one can be provided. Entropy 06:42, 30 December 2006 (CST) This can be divided. I have posted a screenshot showing elemental and physical damage. I tested this with heros and a monk character. The energy loss divides quite nicely and predictably. Basically, if you have two characters casting at lvl 13 protection, the one who casts first looses two energy and the one who casts second looses one. More interesting, if you cast with for characters at 13,3,3,0 then the energy loss is 1 for all characters. The same situation occurs with three characters at 13,8,3. Markh 23:25, 6 March 2007 (CST) :If this is how it is, this could possibly change more than a few team farming builds, and specifically 1 human with 2-3 hero team farm builds. Ideas are flowing right now... I'll get back with what I find. Queen Schmuck 23:42, 6 March 2007 (CST) ::Agreed. Getting 13,3,3,0 is not too difficult. Also, in the screen shot for physical damage, the heros using protective bond at lvl 13 are Tahlkora and Norgu (with Signet of Illusions). The monk in question is not really maintaining anything. In other words, this could be any ~105hp character.Markh 23:54, 6 March 2007 (CST) Also, if anyone has a +1 prot offhand or staff and some lunar fortunes I would like to test the case of 18/{13,8,3,0} just to see the results. I would have tested that case, but I have no +1 prot offhand.Markh 23:54, 6 March 2007 (CST) ::There is a collector in North Kyrta Province that has a +1 Prot 20% item (other stats are not good (edit: ok, it does have +30 hp, but energy is +8)). I have one, and I think it was 3 or 5 caromi scalps to get it. Meet me in game now if you want to test. Queen Schmuck 23:59, 6 March 2007 (CST) :::Thanks for that tip. With the +1 prot off hand I was able to get lvl 18 bond. At lvl 18 it is -2 energy drain. Also, at 18,13 it is -1 energy for both characters. At 18,8 it is -1,-2. Markh 01:10, 7 March 2007 (CST) ::::I confirmed this does split up the energy drain among the characters that cast Prot Bond on the target. With 16 prot on me, 14 prot on 1st hero monk, and 8 prot on 2nd hero monk, I would loose 1 energy / trigger, and the heroes never lost any (?!?). With me again at 16 prot, and only one hero monk (at 14 prot) casting it, I lost 2 energy / trigger, while hero monk didn't appear to lose any (?!?), energy never went down while she had 4 maintained enchantments). It doesn't make much sense to me, but that is what I saw. With Essence Bond and Life Bond on target and Balthazar's Spirit on yourself, you easily make up for the energy loss per hit (except for non physical/elemental damage). Blessed Signet can be used to make up for any gradual loss. ::::Wanting to test just how far I could go with this, I had Koss, with 575 HP, get Protective Bond (2x casters), Life Barrier (-52% dmg), Life Bond (-50% dmg), Watchful Spirit (+2), Mending (+4), and Succor (+1) (hehe, plus a few others). Prot Bond capped his damage at 29 hp, Life Barrier cut that to 14, and Life Bond cut that to 7. 7 damage a hit MAX while at 575 HP from attacks, 14 from spells. Whoopee! I was gaining energy much faster than I was losing energy, as Prot Bond didn't always trigger (except for SPELLS!). Koss, with +7 HP regen (and +1 energy regen), was able to tank about 15 Trolls outside Drok (first 2 groups huddled, and killing them VERY fast with NO aggro scatter), bouncing between 565-575 health. With a few superior runes for str, tact, and sword, his +30 HP shield (armor irrelevant) and vigor rune removed, he would be even more indestructible. You could have a level 1 character tank with this build! ::::I then went on to test how much Koss could take and still live (remember, this is three passive monks and Koss, no others in group). He successfully killed all the Tundra Giants in the area (even while on his butt most of the time), and ate Avicara for a light snack. Even Avicara Wise hexes didn't phase him (-3 degen included). The Nightmares finally killed him, but only after he took out half of them (no other healing besides regen was used). If he would have had his trusty Healing Signet, I am sure he would have lived through that too. He finally meet his match when he crossed his first 2 Grawl Crones (they whacked enchants quick, and he had 9 before he met them). Ok, was this a bug or something before I got here? this seems to be describing 2 people maintaining the same enchantment on one person...which is impossible, as far as i know....can anyone help me here? ~Avatarian 86 23:46, 18 April 2007 (CDT) :ok, tested it myself, and while it defies all logic, and most game mechanics, it works.....so....WTF?? ~Avatarian 86 23:49, 18 April 2007 (CDT) ::More than one person can maintain an enchantment on another character, there just isn't any added benefit to the enchanted. But, since this enchant splits the energy loss between the people using it, it benefits the people that are maintaining it. This is the same as two people casting the Assassin's Promise hex on the same foe, both casters get the benefit if condition is met. Queen Schmuck 12:50, 19 April 2007 (CDT) +Spirit Bond? COULD you cast this, use spirit bond and prot spirit, take this off once you've been hit 10 times (50% health) and maintain spirit bond? Is that possible. Sorry, havent tried it out since nerf ^ ^ :what? spirit bond ends after 10 hits, so you want to take this off when spirit bond ends? that just sounds like a suicide build.--Coloneh RIP 19:24, 12 January 2007 (CST) ::I think hes talking about 10 procs of Prot Bond, not Spirit Bond. Ubermancer 09:52, 19 January 2007 (CST) Viable Use Is there a viable use of this nerfed-to-death skill? If so, I would like to see the build. The only think I can think of is a E/Mo with nothing but attribute points in Energy Storage and Protection Prayers (good for about 25 hits). And maybe a Necro battery nearby too. Hum, maybe the healing Monk on the group could be Mo/N. Might as well have the tank be W/R, then you can drop a Symbiosis spirit too. Now that would be an, um, interesting team build. Still looking for a "viable" use though. Queen Schmuck 02:37, 29 January 2007 (CST) :Well, it used to be a good and powerful skill to save spike targets, even post-nerf - hard to kill something that only takes 1/20 the damage. However now that we have Shield of Absorption this is kind of...bleh. Entropy 05:57, 2 February 2007 (CST) Maybe it should appear somewhere that at level 18 it only costs 2 energy - therefore becoming slightly more viable. I reached 18 with the Lunar blessing today. :It always said that (besides for a few minutes when someone messed up the templates so that every skill showed 0 through 17 only). You can get to 19 protection now. --Fyren 13:24, 17 February 2007 (CST) Lunar Fortune++1 20% prot icon in UW for -2 energy loss I use it sometimes as an A/Mo when green farming - if I come up against a boss with a tough unblockable attack, I use this. Even with 0 Prot Prayers I can keep it up with Critical Strikes, so it works pretty well. Captain Yimuru 22:46, 2 November 2007 (UTC) Captain Yimuru i have found a very viable use in this skill, but i cant say becouse i could see it getting nerfed agin. although i know that this post seems worthless it does two things, 1: shows A-net someone believes its worth persueing skills that they moded well, they moded this one well enough that its hard to use, but not impossible nor worthless. 2: shows all you good thinkers out there, there is a way to use this but you have to actually be smart enough to find it. -The Guy Anoyed Of Hist Builds Being Nerfed 70.56.8.133 13:15, 16 December 2007 (UTC) :This is useable with Bonneti's Defense *rolleyes* --- -- (s)talkpage 13:16, 16 December 2007 (UTC) arcane zeal I've been using a D/Mo mystic healer, and using protective bond on myself as a reliable spike protection. I can only take hits for 5-10 seconds with PB on, but still, with seven enchantments going on and off constantly I can maintain enough energy management to keep PB alive longer then most others I've seen. Zealous vow What about using this with Zealous Vow? An energy regen of 8-25 pips should help nicely. That might provide nice prot for Dervs, though it's still a dead skill for 55 builds. I just tested it, and you can cast them both, but you do get -1 energy drain -Milcho 11:07, 20 April 2007 (CDT) *Just tried it on some small mobs - since at 12 the energy loss is 4, the energy per hit is enough to cancel that out, and with some heros taking some of the aggro, I was able to keep it up continuosly throughout the battle, and used Signet of Pious Light to cancel Zealous Vow outside battle. -Milcho 11:15, 20 April 2007 (CDT) ::If you use a +1 Protection Prayers (20%) mod, you could recast this spell until you reached 13 Prot on a monk secondary, thereby only losing 3 energy/hit. Then just switch to your regular weapon. --Lexxor 07:59, 22 May 2007 (CDT) "...or the spell ends" What dictates whether the spell ends or you just lose energy? - Yellow Monkey 18:10, 12 August 2007 (CDT) :Your current Energy. Say you lose 3 energy per hit and have 2 energy when you're hit, the spell ends. If you have 5 energy and you lose 3, you go down to 2. The Paintballer (T/ ) 18:13, 12 August 2007 (CDT) :It lose energy long as you still have energy, ends when you run out of energy :) Shadow X 20:25, 22 August 2007 (CDT) Mantra of Frost Combo? Hey, i was thinking that if u have balthsars spirit, essence bond, and a mantra of winter with a ranger that uses the greater confligration, winter combo u could sussesfully get 1 energy after every hit. or if ur only facing melee just greater confligration with mantra of flame , and if ur only facing casters u could just use winter. I have thought of the same thing and came up with this http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/User:Qwerty091/Sandbox#Team_-_55.2FSpirit_Ranger Qwerty091 15:15, 18 September 2007 (CDT) :Using Balt Spirit, Ess Bond, Mantra of Frost and Prot Spirit is ideal for solo farming Ice Imps just outside Ice Caves of Sorrow. You'll keep a constant +1 energy per hit. Add both Mending and Watchfull Spirit, so you won't have to struggle with the annoying Maelstroms (You'll have -1 energy regeneration, but that won't be a real problem with the +1 energy per hit, as you will most likely be in a Maelstrom constantly). You just have to time the SoJ right, that is when you're not in a Maelstrom. EDIT: By swapping Shield of Judgment for Signet of Judgment you won't be interupted by Maelstrom at all. ::And by swapping Shield for Sig, you have no damage? ---- Does this spell still function? Or has the way it works been changed? I cast it on my groupmate and it shows it casting but it isn't being maintained. There is plenty of mana for the maintenance but there's no icon to show I'm maintaining it, he has no icon to show it's on him, and no mana is being used. Daysy 15:02, 30 November 2008 (UTC) :Just tested this for you, i took jora to isle of nameless and put it on her and it worked both it showing up and me losing actuall energy and the health part, then i used it on myself and the same results, dunno why it didn't want to work for you. Durga Dido 16:05, 30 November 2008 (UTC) An interesting discussion here What it comes down to : Protective Bond was nerfed primarily because of a technicality, not because of farming builds. Silver Sunlight (T/ ) 23:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC) Maintaining it without the energy loss life bond+ this will reduce the damage greatly right? it also will give the life bond caster tons of 0 damages. so what abaut using those on the tank: prot sprit + life bond + essence bond and on the caster: essence bond + balths sprit which will negate the energy loss of the prot bond at 13 prot prayers, with -1 energy reg. why havent i seen anyone using this?Sharpened Daggers aka RIP 09:19, 17 August 2009 (UTC) :Essence Bond doesn't trigger on untyped damage (which the redirected damage from Life Bond is), only Balthazar's Spirit does, so you would still lose 1e. Actually, according to Isaiah Cartwright (who works for ArenaNet), the reason Protective Bond was changed a long time ago so that -2e wasn't reachable was because of an infinite loop bug that caused the game to crash. Of course, -2e can be reached with consumables now, in case anyone would care to try. 09:52, 17 August 2009 (UTC) :: I've been testing this and u'd have too cast PB on your target(myself) with essence bond and life bond then put baltha on yourself and use Offering of Blood for the other energy(offering of blood gives you 16 energy @ 10 blood)-- 13:50, 26 August 2009 (UTC) :::Actually Felix, it was -1e that was the problem, not -2. Izzy made it so you can't reach -1, even at 21. You'd think they'd actually fix the bug instead of nerfing a skill to work around it. owait... --Macros 16:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC) I messed around with a Protective Bond and Storm chaser R/Mo build for a little while, with 8 in Protection prayers and 15 in WS both Protective bond and Storm chaser are maintainable. The only issue I've found with the build is actually being able to kill anything, let alone quickly. So the build allows 11 points in another attribute to deal damage (since neither prot nor WS have any decent damage skills for the situation) and both smiting and Ranger damage in general is pretty low so...>.< The best I had com up with is this *15(11+4)Wilderness Survival *10(7+3) Expertise *5 Healing prayers *8 Protection prayers *8 Smiting prayers You can either put in if interrupts are needed or to do alot more damage (it's pretty much a 23% les damage than an IW with less casting time and a time limit because of GC) Adrenalin gaining matches Stonesoul Strike's recharge pretty well with being hit at least 6 times in 8 seconds to gain 1 adrenalin and attacking at least 6 times in 8 seconds fully recharges Brawling headbuttwhile facing one enemy. Health is no issue since you take 2 damage a hit. Well not TOO too exciting, but it's a way to make a 55 R/Mo which I think might be kinda new, so yayHabar414 20:37, November 21, 2009 (UTC) New Skill Trainer? (sorry but this is my 1st time editing the wiki) I was looking through the protective bond's skill trainers, and just notice that Firstwatch Sergio in Lion's Arch is not on the page. I got an ss but I don't know how to upload them. Some1 who knows it can easily check and put it in the main page I guess.